Issue with Tribal Fest rules...

I think this is as bad as forcing dancers to pay for a class in order to perform. Surely Tribal bellydance is about appreciating and supporting all in their love of the dance. Performing is a big part of developing confidence and growing as a performer. If only the very best get to perform we are bringing competition and elitism into this beautiful art form. It is not a competition, we are all learning and growing and the support that inexperienced dancers get from performing at events like this invaluable.

Sue

Chuck,

Rakkasah workshop participants may get a spot without having to do the call-in, but performers are not forced to take a workshop in order to perform. From their website:

<At RAKKASAH Festival we DO NOT charge dancers to perform.>

That says it all. Yes, they need to register by call-in, but that doesn't mean they're paying for the opportunity to dance. TF is essentially making performers pay to dance, and that's the difference.

Chuck said:
" just seems that you should have posted it on the Tribal Fest tribe..."

Are you serious!!??? You wanna know why it wasn't posted there? Maybe it's because you delete posts you don't like!!?? Did you think of that? That whole post about Tribal Con... remember...? It got a little heated and instead of admitting that you made a mistake attacking another festival that was VOTED better than your event you DELETED the post.

Censorship.

That's why I won't be posting over there anymore.

<just seems that you should have posted it on the Tribal Fest tribe...>

Ha! I just saw this in Delia's post...Chuck, you ARE kidding, right? Why would I post something criticizing TF when the last time that happened, you deleted the whole thread? I learned my lesson...besides, I wanted to hear from people who may not be just on your tribe but in the larger tribal community, since my inquiry was to them, not just to BSBD'ers and TF'ers.

Perhaps this is a good time to mention the more-than-a-few people who have PM'd me to tell me how much they agreed with me but were afraid to post publicly due to fear of being blackballed or flamed...this has happened both regarding that thread and this one.

I have to echo Jemira. I've danced in countless seminar and festival shows and most of them have the requirement that you take the workshop (or a portion of your troupe if you are in a troupe). Maybe it's a regional thing.. maybe a tribal/oriental thing (I also play in the oriental world of bellydance), but either way, it's the norm where I'm from.

My troupe also sponsors a three-day multi-teacher tribal event and we have similar requirements for all of our performers. We've never had a problem getting people to perform in our shows. As an event sponsor, Jemira is right.... it takes a lot of time and money to put these events together. Being part of the event means doing more than showing up and performing (my opinion.. hate me for it if you want). It means contributing to the community of the event by taking classes, vending, volunteering, or teaching. The opportunity to perform is icing on the cake and gives the sponsor a chance to say "thanks for your support" by giving the dancers a stage to get their names out there and show what they've got.

As Jemira said... it's a privilege to dance in festival and seminar shows... not a right.

<So, if the new guidelines either A. get these folks to really do what they're supposed to do and get involved, or B.discourage them from wasting time that could be used for other performers who do want to present something in the guidelines, then that's fantastic.>

I don't see how the new guidelines regarding performers taking workshops has anything to do with so-called tribal dancers doing thinly-veiled cabaret. Just because someone takes an ATS workshop, for example, doesn't mean they're not going to bust out with a cab performance later, and I don't see the correlation. As for being involved...I personally think that if a dancer goes up to the festival, performs, networks a bit, and buys stuff from vendors, that's a fair amount of participation. Who's to say what level of participation is not enough for each person?

Unless you're somehow working the event (volunteering, vending, etc.), there's really only three things to do at TF--perform, take workshops, and shop. I find the workshop rule to be as silly as saying, you must buy $30-50 worth of any vendor's merchandise in order to perform. Because if you're good enough to perform, you *must* need to buy something from a vendor, right? It's basically the same thing.

<If performance slots are limited, it makes sense to allow participants first crack at them>

If the TF policy was that workshop participants had first crack at the performing slots, that would be great. That makes everyone hustle to get into a workshop so their chances of performing are better. However, what they're saying is that you MUST take a workshop in order to perform, and what that boils down to is if you don't pay, you're not performing.

Most of everything has been answered here so I don't feel that I need to jump in. I was worried last night after making my post.

But it sounds like the main thing here is that Tribal Fest is changing. It is growing and with that it must change...

This is the 7th year and they say every 7 years things change...

I will address one thing....It would be nice if we didn't have to worry about charging to get in the door. We don't charge performers the day that they perform to get into the Fest. Last year that meant that OVER 1300 people didn't have to pay to get in.

If we let everyone who takes a class get in for free also, then there would be no way to pay for the Fest.

The door from the general public, people just walking in, wouldn't do it.

Here's my issue:

Every year, I have gotten my performer application in as soon as the performance slots opened. I am very dilligent because I know there are limited performance slots, and so we know that if we want to get on that stage, we need to be proactive.

Chuck, you and Kajira are sooo sweet to want to accomodate everyone, and to try and make room for everyone who wants to perform. But frankly, this move seems like just the opposite. Instead of making it so more people can perform, you have made it so people who have the ability to have most everyone in their troupe pay for a workshop can; and additionally put someone in the dubious position of herding all the cats in their troupe to get everyone to commit to a workshop right now, get you their workshop information and money, and send it all in. That is a difficult thing at best, and impossible (financially or otherwise) at worst.

For instance, my student troupe was really excited to finally come out and perform at Tribal Fest for the first time this year. But some of my gals are in college/graduate school, have children, and various other responsibilities that make it difficult for them to commit more money to coming to this event than they already are. For dancers in Seattle to prepare for an event like this, it includes the cost of their classes and rehearsals, costuming, flight, hotel, and food for the weekend. Sure, some of them can pay for it. Some of them can't. (And a lot of them can't afford to put that money up in November, right before Christmas even if they could another time of year). And now they are being told they have to add on the cost of workshops on top of that. *shaking head* Some of them were already balking at the overall cost, and now...

(PS on this note, why didn't you just say "everyone in your troupe needs to pay for one workshop per dancer"? Why does a troupe of 5 have to come up with 7 workshops, while a soloist or a group of 5 need only one each? Seems a little skewed toward smaller groups... Not that I think this is a good system in general...)

What this new system says to me is that someone like me, who is always very proactive and on-the-ball about applying for a performance slot, always brings a polished tribal bellydance routine to share in the show, patronizes the vendors, and participates every day of the event (meaning I don't show up just one day to perform), now has to pay to perform so that people who send in their applications late, bring non-tribal performances to the stage, never buy a thing, and come only the day to perform can be policed somehow?? Why should me and my gals be "penalized"? Sure, we do take workshops, but only those of us who have the money and time. Not everyone in my troupes can, which means NO ONE in my student troupe may be able to come and perform in this event at all.

I don't see what is so horrible about turning people away!!

Quite frankly, the verbiage in the new rules sound more harsh and alienating than if you had simply taken some notes at the past events and said in clear terms, "Here are the guidelines. Those who do not adhere to the themeing will be noted and will not be allowed to perform at this festival in the future" or somesuch. If troupe XYZ keeps showing up to do a cabaret routine, DON'T LET THEM PERFORM NEXT YEAR! Take their name off the list, so others can perform. Be strict about it. If they ask you about it, tell them why (you or the person you designate to take notes will have that info). And if they want to talk to you about it and explain WHY they felt it was appropriate and adhered to the rules, you can make a judgement call then about whether or not to give them another chance...

And be consistent about your rules. Having those rules set out, and then making a personal choice to let certain people break the rules, based solely on your whims, sends a VERY confusing message. You on the one hand tell people they must adhere to the theme, and that no cabaret or burlesque-themed stuff can come to the stage, but you invite Princess Farhana to take it all off on your say-so? Don't you think that sent a confusing message to those who would be guided by your actions and choices? For instance, as a administrator of this tribe, there are many topics which I would love to include or delete based on my personal preferences, but because I represent a COMMUNITY of people, and not just my personal whimsy, I deal with them according to the good of the group. I am not sure all choices as to what was allowed on that stage were based on the same code...

And lastly, extending an already long an exhausting festival doesn't seem like a good idea to me (while we're adding to constructive criticism). Going until 10pm now to try and add more performance slots, and/or adding that second stage...personally, I wouldn't do it. Our local festival has done the same thing, and the fact is, after a long jam-packed day, no matter how motivated we may be to want to stay and support a given troupe or dancer, we can't stick around that late. And even when we do, it is low energy and more of "being a trouper" than actually being fired up like we were at noon. The second stage really divides the energy of an otherwise "family reunion" feel to the event, and makes people choose between different amazing performances. I missed I don't know how many great things on the outside stage because I was inside trying to support someone else, and vice versa. It felt miserable to have to have to choose to love and support one dancer over another. These are things I have always disliked about Rakkasah, and I am sad to see TF emulating both of these details.

I don't see what is so wrong about saying "the festival goes from 11am-6pm each day. There are limited slots for performers in this amount of time. Those who get their performance information in first, and is not on the "no-fly" list for past tribal drag or inappropriate performance content, will get those slots. Anyone after that is on a waiting list. We hope that even if you can't perform that you come and support and enjoy the festival, and remember to get your theme-appropriate act together a little earlier next year so you have a better chance at getting a slot."

Now, what was so hard about that?

I think sometimes you guys are just too nice! For instance, the whole "no Paypal this year because some people didn't bring their receipts and really wanted to get in." Ya know what? TOUGH TITTIE! Your name isn't on the list. You didn't bring a receipt. I can't let you in. Sorry! What makes you think that snail-mail is going to be a better way to combat this issue? There will be occasional mistakes on your end, and some people not bringing proof/receipts on this end, no matter HOW you accept money. This way is just making it more difficult, creating a hefty pile of paper, and taking a step back in the evolution of a dance event in the new millenium.

You say people sent money after you left for the event and cutoff registrations. Did you take down the Paypal buttons from the website before you left, and put up a big note that said "WE ARE NO LONGER ACCEPTING ONLINE REGISTRATIONS" on the registration page? If you didn't take these steps...then it's not surprising this was an issue. If you did, and people still found a way to send you money, then it is a simple matter of doing refunds when you get back to your Paypal access.

As for Holly's pay-to-play issue, I gotta agree. I am surprised at how many people out there have this as the norm!! Performing IS your contribution! I have never EVER seen this "must take the workshop to perform" rule in the Northwest, or at any other festival I have been to except Rakkasah (and theirs is a prioritization, not a requirement--not that I like that any better). Especially for groups like ours that travel a long way and at great expense to participate, what more of a commitment do you WANT from us than hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel costs?! It is no small feat that we troupes from other states get together a group committed enough and in love with the idea of performing at Tribal Fest enough to get the money and time together to come and be a part of it. This new rule, tied to money, makes it even harder; and seems to favor local groups who can pop in for a day for a workshop and performance, and go home and sleep in their bed for nothing more than the cost of gas and the workshop.

I feel partly bad for posting all this negative stuff, but partly like it is our job to speak up when we have thoughts like this--I know that Kajira says she is open to hearing all feedback, good and bad; and if I were in her shoes putting on such a huge and influential event, I would want to know just what people were thinking and feeling about my choices, so I could tweak the event to better serve the community I put it together for. It is knowing she wants to hear the honest-to-god truth that I offer my opinion alongside the other ladies here.

Frankly, I can't imagine the kind of work it takes to put on an event of this size. NOBODY is questioning Kajira and Chuck's genuine desire to make TF the best event it can be, and to serve the community of tribal dancers through their hard work!! But we just don't all agree that the changes made this year really serve either the spirit or the efficacy of the Fest. I think that while Kajira and Chuck do the lions-share of the work, the beauty of the Fest is that we all feel really personally invested in the success and evolution of this event. When we see changes that we believe will damage it in some way, we want to offer up our viewpoint in hopes that it will better the event in the long run. And I hope that these passionate, heated words shared here are taken in that light--of genuine desire to help see Tribal Fest be even greater than it already is!!