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Valizan wrote... < "You know what I'd like to see one day? Rachel and the Indigo go on stage, strip off all the layers of jewelry, artifice and make-up, and dance Tribal Fusion in a simple dress and a scarf tied around their lovely waists........With the Indigo, it would come down to basic beautiful Tribal dance. " >
This got me thinking more about Fusion, and some of the things I'm seeing more. The changes in costuming, fusion with Theater etc. and the increasing use of non traditional music. (eg. not Near or Middle Eastern)
To me, the costume, jewelry etc is part of what makes the dance what is. It should 'set the the stage' visually, as the the music 'sets the stage aurally'.
When the step vocabulary is unchanged, sometime you only have costume elements or music to refence the time or place of a dance piece.
When these elements are removed, to me you end up with something more akin ( to me ) Interpretive or Modern dance. Not really 'Belly dance' ( i use this term for convenience. I'm not going into whether it is the correct one or not) However someone going to see 'belly dance' may be disappointed, or offended.
I'm not going to say 'not Arabic' because i feel Turkey and areas of the former Ottoman empire should be included in making up this dance form. This includes the Balkans.
At what point do you think it shouldn't be called Belly dance anymore, only 'based on', or 'inspired by'
Just curious~
This got me thinking more about Fusion, and some of the things I'm seeing more. The changes in costuming, fusion with Theater etc. and the increasing use of non traditional music. (eg. not Near or Middle Eastern)
To me, the costume, jewelry etc is part of what makes the dance what is. It should 'set the the stage' visually, as the the music 'sets the stage aurally'.
When the step vocabulary is unchanged, sometime you only have costume elements or music to refence the time or place of a dance piece.
When these elements are removed, to me you end up with something more akin ( to me ) Interpretive or Modern dance. Not really 'Belly dance' ( i use this term for convenience. I'm not going into whether it is the correct one or not) However someone going to see 'belly dance' may be disappointed, or offended.
I'm not going to say 'not Arabic' because i feel Turkey and areas of the former Ottoman empire should be included in making up this dance form. This includes the Balkans.
At what point do you think it shouldn't be called Belly dance anymore, only 'based on', or 'inspired by'
Just curious~
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 1:57 PMI just have short question.....
how high is the price to pay to be original ??? sacrifice what is bellydancing, what ever style... to HAVE to be original.....it gives a sense that you do it then to impress other, not for yourself.
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 2:05 PMI think the visual element of costuming is one of the big points that gets people interested in watching belly dance or get into belly dancing for themselves. The main sense that dancing provokes is the visual. Maybe it's because i am a very visually oriented person but it seems to me that costuming creates a huge impact & accents the dancing. It helps create the feeling you are trying to convey in your routine. I know a lot of people put too much effort into their costumes instead of their dancing but that's easy to spot from a mile away. You can tell the people who care more about dancing then their outfits and that will always show on stage. -
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 2:20 PMoh another quick thought, sorry! hehe. i do need to quote rachel when she quoted Felleni (sp?) on her arms dvd. She compared her costuming to Felleni saying he didn't want to create Rome but create "planet Rome" and she used that analogy to create a "planet India" feeling with her look. I think that's a fantastic way to look at it. The costuming really helps the performer become the belly dancer. I actually throw on a few costume pieces just when I practice because it really helps me get into my belly dance "character" =) Fame of mind is another good way to put it. so yeah just another thought!
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 3:50 PMIMO costuming is the Icing on a cake...
Now cake alone is tasty, but you wouldn't serve it in a restaurant or sell it from a stand that way. You would made an icing that compliments the cake. Icing may be simply and rich or elaborate and frilly but it IS part of a really good cake. The thing is that while nibbling on cake can be tasty, eating the icing alone tastes good for a minute, but then it kinda makes you sick. I see Tribal Fusion the same way... I see what you are fusing as the icing... Again if there is no cake under there... ick.
I liked Valizan's point (to a point) because I know that Rachel Zoe and Mardi have the skillz to dance with no costuming and still be stunning... Its the cake that is the Foundation. But I also can see they are in a weird spot so many people do look to them as a fashion-plate. Can you imagine the pressure... gotta come up with NEW costuming, then the moment you do, you are guaranteed to have 1000 people copy you within a month.
I also have to say, that its very apparent to me (being a bit of a bay area belly insider) that The Indigo's Tribal Fest performances have a LOT of social commentary, satire and good natured critique of the Tribal Fusion Community and even their previous year's performance.
I even state on the TF videos that I have of them that... If you don't "get it" please don't take offense... These routines at TF are dancers dancing FOR other dancers not for the general public and some of the jokes are "inside jokes" even I don't completely get.
As a last note... I must say I was wondering how many troupes would follow The Indigo's lead from last year and come out wearing Animal heads at this year's Tribal Fest. -
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 4:49 PMmmmmm..... icing & cake.... *homer simpson gurgle*
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 4:29 PMI personally love Belly Dancing to different kinds of music (Middle Eastern, Gothic, Industrial, Metal, Elevator Muzak at the grocery store...I really love to dance!), but I don't perform in public too often and when I have I stuck to a certain style (music, costuming and dance all going together). I do think sometimes that costumes can detract from the dancing if they are too much or too little or totally incongruent with the music or style. I don't see a problem with fusion if it is labeling itself as such and I think personal preference plays a huge part in Belly Dance as well. That said I do think that there is a fine line that some of the dancers are walking as to whether or not they should use the term Belly Dance. But ultimately if I don't like it, I don't go see it, etc.-Freya -
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Mon, June 1, 2009 - 6:52 PMi like dancing to all sorts of different music, too.
i dont necessarily think they have to shed the costuming
i was watching a video of sera and wildcard bellydance and i was like "this is awesome!!!!"
great technique, really dynamic performance, in the same cute tops they always wear and the snake goddess-esque ruffly skirts
i think, at the end of the day, the power of a dancer will shine through glitz
on the same token, the glitz won't cover up bad dancing -
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 8:27 AMI think that is a great way to put it. A well thought out, themed or extravagant costume will only enhance a talented dancer, who would shine just as much in a plain costume. But as i've seen before, someone can come out decked out to the nines and if they don't know what they are doing...you will still be able to tell that they haven't got a clue.
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 11:08 AMI fully agree that there are those that are amazing dancers that can dress however they want and look great, then there are those that have too much costume, and not enough dance. Trying to hide the fact that they have no basics, only the moves they TRY to copy from youtube or even DVD's (now I'm a dvd addict, but thats because I live in a semi remote area... but I do have a teacher who rocks!)
Its sad really.
But, dance must evolve or it dies. People are tired of seeing the same ole same ole, and will figure out that everyone else is tired of the same ole same ole. This is how new stuff is brought about, new creative process and love for the dance.
I just feel that too many are getting out there and saying what they are dancing is bellydance when in fact they have NO basic training! -
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 3:22 PMtribal bellydance also suffers from lack of respect and knowledge for it's origins and the feeling that you're allowed to do whatever you feel is right... at least for many people in my comunity. Most of them don't even care about who is carolena nericcio or what part jamila salimpour played in the development of the concept of this dance style... for instance, many people only care about coping rachel's last look ando go out saying "i'm a tribal bellydancer" .
That totaly fit in the "cake concept "... but there are good teacher out there, and the main caracteristic that they have is respect and ethics... Trainig through dvd's is fine by me, but you have to do your homework and really study everything that will give you the basic foundation of the dance and the historic basis for realy trying something new and inspiring . -
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 1:54 PMGah. Shame on the people who thing that they don't need to honor those who have come before us. You better know who Carolena Nericcio is, and you BETTER know who Jamila Salimpour is, because without her, NONE of us would be where we are. And if you don't know who these ladies are, learn some basic research skills and go forth and LEARN. -
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Re: Spin-off from the Drunken fusion thread
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 10:24 AMI like all sorts...love Jill Parker, love my Instructor, Sara Beaman...she's my *girl crush*...don't kick me out of class Sara!! I love anyone who pioneered the ATS, and equally love those dancers that are able to add their own special touch...everyone has something to add. But, I absolutely agree that one MUST know the basic vocabulary, cues, and develop some sort of intuitive connection with the fellow troupemates...some cues look different...sometimes, if you aren't "mindreading", you could just turn around in circles waiting for SOMEONE to take the lead....not too cool...and sort of makes one dizzy.
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